Codebearers

After watching the three movies of The Chronicles of Narnia I have come to the conclusion that Narnia can be called whatever you want to call it, but it is not a series that has been inspired by God. There is no possible way that it could be. This is my reason why…

            I believe that the Bible and God are the final authorities, and anything that defies them or preaches otherwise is, in essence, evil. With that said, I would like to show you a few things to support my statement about Narnia.

            In the book The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, Lucy is given a task to enter an invisible mansion and recite a spell to turn Dufflepuds, a wizard, and Aslan visible again. In the Bible spells like these are referred to as “familiar spirits”, “mediums”, “the fire”, etc.

            “There shall not be found among you anyone who makes is son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,” Deuteronomy 18:10

            Aslan makes Lucy do this as a “trial” or “test of her faith”. However, this verse specifically says that no one should give a trial to someone in this manner.

“Give not regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.” Leviticus 19:31

After Lucy’s trial is complete a wizard is revealed and the four children must consult him to find their next destination. Again, this is forbidden by God.

            “or one who conjures spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you.” Deuteronomy 18:11-12

            In The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe Susan is sent back to the White Witch’s lair to bring the creatures back to life after being turned to stone. This also is an abomination. Before anyone takes anything for an allegory or says, “But it’s supposed to symbolize…” first take a look at what is being used to symbolize it. For example: many people say that Harry Potter is an allegory, yet any well discerning Christian would know better than to fall for that. Why, however, should we not call Harry Potter an allegory? A true Christian would say, “Because it strongly uses magic and magic is forbidden by God.” But Harry Potter symbolizes the good and the light in the world, so wouldn’t that cancel out all the bad magic. I mean after all the magic in Harry Potter is being used for good. Again, a true Christian that knows the Bible would say, “God forbids the use of magic.” That same Christian, however, will turn right around and praise Narnia for being a great allegory. What is the difference between the two? Because Narnia’s hero looks more like a Christ Savior than Harry Potter? This is foolishness and not just by my definition.

            “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1

            As I stated before, I believe that anything that deifies God and/or the Bible or contradicts them or anything like that is, in essence, an appearence of evil.

            “Abstain from all appearance of evil.” 1 Thessalonians 5:22

            Narnia is not in any way, shape, or form inspired by God. The God that the Bible speaks of, and the God that I know and follow, does not press a point in the Bible as far as the subject of witchcraft is pressed, and then turn around and inspire a story that relies on the use of magic. If you think for one second that He would do such a thing, then I pray for you.

            “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.” Galations 1: 8-9

Written by Math Ew!

http://www.greatpreachers.org/narnia.html

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/narnia-trouble.htm

           

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Narnia is supposed to symbolize the spiritual world. Correct? If anything it should be the other way around. Magic shouldn't work at all in Narnia and it should in our world. Because magic does work in our world.

What magic works in our world? Satanic powers. That is what works in our world. But the things that happen in Narnia are NOT Satanic.

You can't say you like Hunter Brown and think Narnia is demonic. The Millers drew basically everything from Hunter Brown from Narnia. Magic varies definitions, and I think arguing with YOU is the problem here because you are remaining unconvinced Math Ew. My schooling is through Veritas Press and my teachers are insanely smart and keen on doctrine. They have classical training in Latin, Greek, Ancient literature and most importantly the Bible.

I know going with the masses is wrong, but in this case, simply because their doctrine is so on top correct, and NOTHING GOES WITHOUT BEING BACKED UP BY THE BIBLE,  and Lewis himself is so insanely profound in his other theological and non-works, I am perfectly okay with reading Narnia. You are being superstitious it seems to me, and arguing with you is as effective as arguing with a brick wall because you simply will not hear what people are saying. I know the biblical evidence behind Lewis and have done my research like most everyone who has replied to you. You seem to be saying you are the one who hasn't done his research simply because the facts are in front of you and you are stubbornly refusing.

I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion, but stop arguing as if you expect us to listen when you will not return the favor.

Also, We live in a world that's main goal is to suppress God. In order to reach out to them, we can't be all, "SINNER! I WILL NOT READ YOUR DEVIL'S WORKS" cause that will just make them hate us more. You are supposed to know how to speak according to your audience, and in my opinion, Lewis did this beautifully. He managed to get his work into the culture, his work based off of biblical doctrine, and this opens the door for people to love his work and want more. His wisdom is so clear and beautifully articulated, no one can leave his works unchanged.

I suggest you pick up a biography on him, actually LISTEN to what is written, not open it with a hateful opinion on him, otherwise you won't hear anything that is right that he did. And then you will see that his heart truly is manifest in his works as the BIble says.

And Lewis never makes wizards a good thing. They may do "good" but only because they did bad to begin with. And Aslan, the representation of God, turns these things for good. Lewis knows that to deny that the things of the world exist is foolish. He never promotes wizardry in any way and the whole entirety of the "dufflepods" thing you brought up was a symbol of the foolish ambitions of wizards and their workers. YOu can't argue something you have never read yourself, which I know you haven't.

I'm also kinda disappointed in your choice of scripture here as well, most of the verses are taken out of context or do not apply here.

I haven't researched? I'm the only one here who is giving scripture (hard evidence) to support my belief. No one has yet given me a scripture that says there is a difference between good and bad magic. Or even that there is a good and bad magic.

You think C.S. Lewis was so involved with God?

Explain me these:

"A man who disbelieved the Christian story as fact but continually fed on it
as myth would, perhaps, be more spiritually alive than one who assented and did
not think much about it. The modernist—the extreme modernist, infidel in all but
name—need not be called a fool or hypocrite because he obstinately retains, even
in the midst of his intellectual atheism, the language, rites, sacraments, and
story of the Christians. The poor man may be clinging (with a wisdom he himself
by no means understands) to that which is his life
…" C.S. Lewis

God calls unsaved people much worse than just hypocrits. Does that sound like a man who knows his Bible and his God?

or this:

Former witch, Pastor David J. Meyer, writes the following concerning Narnia: As a former witch, astrologer, and occultist who has been saved by the grace of God, I know that the works of C.S. Lewis are required reading by neophyte witches, especially in the United States and England. This includes The Chronicles of Narnia, because it teaches neophyte, or new witches, the basic mindset of the craft. Isn’t it strange, though, that many “Christian” churches and organizations have used The Chronicles of Narnia as Sunday School curriculum? When I saw the release date of this new movie, I was not surprised. December 9th is the 13th day before the witches’ quarter-sabat of Yule. The full cold moon is midway between the release date and the sabat of Yule. The waxing moon is also directly on the equinox on the release date of the movie. This is far too precisely occultic to be coincidental, and the producers of the movie no doubt consulted upper-level witches regarding the perfect day to have the “Chronicles of Narnia” open...

The story of the Narnian Chronicle known as The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is one of clandestine occult mysticism and is not Sunday School material unless your Sunday School is a defacto witch coven. The story involves a child from the normal everyday or mundane world. This girl, Lucy, who hides in a wardrobe as she is playing a game, suddenly finds herself transported to another world very unlike her own. It is a world of intelligent, talking animals and strange creatures. The little girl soon finds herself having tea with a faun.

In witchcraft and ancient Roman pagan mythology, a faun is any of a group of rural deities, which have the bodies of men and the horns, ears, tails, and legs of a goat. The Roman god Faunus was also the god of nature and fertility and was connected to sexual lust. Here let it be noted that in the Narnian Chronicle Prince Caspian, this same strange land the little girl finds herself in is also populated by gods and goddesses; such as Bacchus, the god of drunken orgies, and the Maenads, who were frenzied women driven to madness in the orgiastic cult of Bacchus

. Scource: Narnia Chronicles

One endorsement of the series reads: "Christians can safely place the Narnia series in the hands of their children and know that they will read nothing to challenge their faith, and the story can easily be read by children of all backgrounds without fear of indoctrination."

Shouldn't a book written by a man with such a relationship with God repel those kind of spirits? Not attract them. If you handed a Bible to those witches they'd freak. But why not with Narnia?

 

In Surprised by Joy C.S. Lewis talks about going to a foreign country and feeling the urge to worship their gods because they were so fasinating. A well decerning Christian would know that to be wrong no matter how innocent it might be.

 

I have have done my research. I wouldn't make these statments if I hadn't. I have looked and found that while C.S. Lewis does have some good inspirational quotes he also has very absurd quotes that makes me wonder about his relationship with God.

 

Before you use your teachers as refrences (scholarships don't compare with what the Bible actually says. The Bible is the only certification you need to be a great minister of God.) read the links that I posted at the bottom of the description.

Just. Stop.

 After weeks of going on and on, what do you gain? Stress.

Just stop, your opinion has been noted. We don't care. You don't like magic. Some of us do.

I like your 666 thread, but this one is just over the top.

Dude, You need to calm down for one. These forums are for friendly discussion, not for yelling out your opinions as if they are infallible. And just remember you need to argue accordingly to specific audiences. We don't want to listen to what you have to say because 1) The is a Codebearers forum, Codebearers takes its main inspiration from  Narnia, so it's like arguing with a math teacher why English is better DURING A MATH CLASS. And 2) Most of us here love Narnia, and the way you are presenting your case makes a person feel like you're saying "You're going to Hell if you read these" (Lines like "If you think for one second that He would do such a thing, then I pray for you." are exactly why we don't want to hear you out.) Be nice, and admitting that "hey, you guys might be right, I for my personal  opinion Don't believe this, and here's why, perhaps you would like to shine some insight?" Remember, what you are saying is an OPINION, otherwise it wouldn't be up for debate

Jesus never quoted, "In Deutoronomy 12:1 it is said" Because there were no verses or chapters added until about the 1500s. I quoted scripture, but not in the "conventional" way that has become so popular lately. I think that during a debate where someone claims to know the Bible, they should understand references and concepts. If you need a reference, ask and I'll get it, but don't blow me off like I don't know what I'm talking about because I didn't put verses up. Scripture is worth nothing if you misinterpret it

And I'm serious, stop taking things out of context, C.S. Lewis said nothing wrong if you actually read what he said in entirety. On top of that, his passage is true! You can't call them fools in the context of the world we live in today, they will not hear that. The BIble also says not to call them fools, but rather to be wary lest you fall into their clever snares. The Bible calls them worse things, but never these things in themselves because they just aren't so.

I don't like the way that "pastor" spoke. I think he sounds uneducated and superstituous because of what he used to believe. Just because, as he admits, he is a pastor, does not make him right.

Just because Lewis admitted temptation in an area of his life that you have never experienced, because I highly doubt you've been somewhere where false gods were being worshipped like that. So again, you need to stop taking things out of context.

and don't mess with my teachers, I have no idea what on earth you are talking about regarding scholarships because that has to do with money.  My teachers are not random sources I found off of google, they've done massive research because they don't want to promote something that is against the BIble.

C.S. Lewis was a sinner, just as much as you are, of  COURSE some of his doctrine is going to be flawed and you need to stop pretending like everything he says needs to be perfect in order for it to be of any merit. By your standards, that pastor you quoted would be an awful source because his doctrine is no doubt flawed in areas as well.

Lexi made a single point, Matthew, that entirely destroys everything and anything you might say, no matter what you back it up with.

Nobody cares.

And nobody is going to care, or even pretend to, until you learn how to present an argument in a way that respects the people you're trying to convince.  Screaming out your opinion as though it is divine fact just because you've found a couple sources that agree with you, that's just gonna make people hate you.  It is the absolute WORST way to go about trying to help anyone see the truth.  If you approached a non-Christian like that, I can assure you they'd cuss you out, unless they were extremely polite, and even then they'd probably still do it.

You might know a lot about the Bible, you might do your research, you might even have a valid point, but nobody, and I mean nobody, is going to care about what you say unless you learn to present it in a way that isn't "This is what's what, I'm right no matter what you say, and if you don't agree with me you're going to hell!".  You've said that Ezra's arguments are invalid and lame, but the only difference between yours and his is that you back yours up with "facts" that make them seem more credible and educated.  But really, you're just doing the exact same thing that Ezra did, except on the other side of the argument.

To back that up all you have to do is look at grammar Nazis.  I know people who are grammar Nazis and say that they do it help improve the failing standard of English used all over the internet these days.  Yet all they do when they see spelling errors is "You're*, there*, their*, they're*, I'm*, He's*, hear*, wear*" and "Your entire post was so horribly written I couldn't even read it.  Come back when you learn how to spell".  Who's gonna care what they say?  For me, all that makes me do is mess up my grammar on purpose when I talk to them.  After reading your opening statements, all they made me think was, "Gonna prove this noob wrong".  The only reason you haven't gotten cussed out by someone is because this is a Christian site and that's not allowed.

Now if you had opened the thread up saying something like "Hey guys, so I was watching the Narnia movies, and the magic stuff didn't really sit right.  Check out this stuff I found on magic and what the Bible says about it" I can assure you, you would have received a much more open group of people.  That way, it would have been an open issue, something that you found disturbing and wanted to talk about.  People would've traded opinions with you and been much more open to the verses, passages, and arguments you presented (so long as you didn't call them stupid and condemn them to hell over the course of the discussion :P ).

Instead, you jumped the gun, threatening fire and brimstone upon the heads of anyone who disagreed with you.  Nobody is ever going to listen to you if you open up by condemning something they know and love.  I sincerely hope you don't do this when you try witnessing to non-Christians.  If you ever have.

I'm closing this discussion. I didn't intend to create any walls between anyone. I simply wanted to bring this to people's attention. Narnia is great, but don't turn it into something it wasn't intended for or is.

I have given you what God says about it and wheather you want to listen to it or not is your choice. I didn't really think I was going to change anyone's mind but at least we looked into it.

The Bible and God are the unltimate authorities. Anything or anyone who says "yeah, but" after that is most likely getting their argument from somewhere else and that won't stand against God. I asked for scripture to show me where it says that there is a good and bad magic or that you can use magic as long as it's in certain permeters. No one could provide such scripture, so 'nuff said.

You never provided scripture that said that magic was undeniably evil in every context, so yeah, nuff said.

And by the way, saying "your arguments fail because I'm right" and then closing a thread in the middle of a debate is incredibly childish and only shows the people you're arguing against that you don't know how to contest the arguments they're using.

Hello Codebearers!

I've been watching this discussion with great interest over the past few days. Sorry I have not had a chance to reply sooner, but I had a few thoughts to share as this discussion comes to an apparent close.

First, I want to affirm the challenge 'Math ew' has put forth for each one of us to be thoughtful and discerning about what content we choose to fill our minds with. No matter what the form of entertainment - be it book, movie, music, or even friendships - we would be wise to be on guard against subtle deceptions that can lead our minds and hearts off-course.

Second, I want to say that I really appreciated how many of you have engaged in this debate. There have been many thoughtful and respectful posts that represent everything great about Codebearers.

That said, I do worry that some of these good aspects were lost at times amidst the rush to make one's point and be proven right. My suggestion: Share your opinion, certainly. But don't forget to listen as well. Ask more clarifying questions of each other. Be careful not to assert fact where only conjecture belongs (I think a few points made would have been better presented as "If this was the intent, then...") And be careful not to zing back a response too quickly. That is usually a recipe for trouble and hurt feelings. In the end, nothing is gained by attacking another.

All that said, let me re-emphasize a very important point pertaining to this discussion: C.S. Lewis, and every author of every book for that matter, shares something in common with Chris and I - we're all just men. We are not prophets. We are not infallible. Our stories are not the gospel and should never replace the authority of God's divine, inspire words. Never assign a man what only belongs to God. Please allow that to sink in no matter what side of this debate you are on.

Both Chris and I are extremely humbled that any of our writing would ever be used to help readers understand the greater truth found in God's Word. I do believe that C.S. Lewis would share that same heart. All the same, I know I also feel the burden of the thought that our writings would ever be used to mislead anyone. But even then, we wouldn't be alone: even God's own words are twisted to convey meanings that He never intended. It happens far too often.

That is why I would go so far as to challenge each of our readers to never take anything Chris or I say as gospel truth. Be thoughtful. Be discerning. Never allow any man to become God's voice.

I look forward to many more exciting and beneficial discussions and debates to come! (Who knows? Maybe this one will be revisited again someday...) Thanks again, dear friends.

For the Way of Truth and Life,

Allan (The Miller Brothers)

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